In the last decade, the growing rapprochement between Turkey and Russia has sparked a huge debate about the rise of a multipolar world in the western mainstream media. Hence, in order to deeply understand the dynamics of the ongoing debate, renowned Turkish lawyer and Journalist Ali Göçmen interviewed the Russian Political expert and deputy head chief of the International Eurasia Movement Dr. Leonid Savin.

Ali Göçmen: Hello Mr. Savin, first of all, I would like to start with a question about the developments in Afghanistan. Speaking at the US Congress on November 7, 2007, the fresh President of France, Nicolas Sarkozy, said: “France will stay in Afghanistan as long as necessary because what is at stake in that country is our values ​​and the values ​​of the Atlantic Alliance. I say this seriously before you: Failure is not an option.” Within the framework of this conversation, can we say that it is not only America but Atlantic values ​​that have been lost in Afghanistan?

Leonid Savin: Absolutely. This was also reflected in the speeches of several politicians from the USA. Values ​​matter. And this is the failure of Western liberalism not only in Afghanistan but on the global stage. But it is also a failure of trust in the West. Even US partners began to discuss how to change relations with Washington in the future because of its behavior in Afghanistan. Frustration with the creation of AUKUS and France’s decision to cancel Australia’s submarine contract is another sign of trust issues within the transatlantic community.

‘TURKEY REGIONAL LEADER AND DECISION MAKER’

Ali Göçmen: You have long said that the unipolar world order has come to an end. Many analysts say the US withdrawal from Afghanistan is a symbolic proclamation of a multipolar world. Now the monologue is over and the number of speakers is increasing. What kind of roles can Turkey play as an important Pole especially in the Islamic world in the new period?

Leonid Savin: Turkey has already declared itself as a regional leader and decision-maker. However, there are still some tensions with Arab countries and some forces’ negative reactions to the Turkish presence in Syria and Iraq. The United States understands Turkey’s vulnerabilities, such as the Kurdish issue, and will likely manipulate this factor for its own interests in the region. Iran is also a rising power with a specific agenda and Ankara (especially because of Azerbaijan) will need to coordinate its own activities with Tehran. From our point of view, Turkey can be one of the centers of the new polycentric world order and a supporter of traditional values. It is very good that Turkey has stopped some of the pro-Western deals that are ticking time bombs for Turkish society. But Russia, China, etc. in Eurasia. They should have good pragmatic relations with other power centers such as Turkey.

Ali Göçmen: At the beginning of September, Russian philosopher Aleksandr Dugin wrote an article entitled ‘The end of the unipolar world instead of the end of history. “There are rumors that the Biden administration is planning to use extremists against China and Russia, thus releasing the hands of the Taliban (considered a banned terrorist organization in Russia),” Dugin wrote in his article. said. Do you think this is possible?

Leonid Savin: They are provoking and attacking Russia every time, and they will continue to do so in the future. Fight the West’s pressure on Moscow by other means, such as disinformation, special operations, proxy warfare (where terrorism is useful), laws, sanctions, preventive diplomacy… And not just Moscow. Let’s not forget that some sanctions were also imposed on Turkey by the USA and its allies! However, Afghanistan has an impact on some Central Asian countries in the field of Russian interests. Therefore, Moscow has to react there as well. And Russia is ready.

IN SYRIA: STEPS TO TAKE

Ali Göçmen: At the beginning of September, Russian philosopher Aleksandr Dugin wrote an article entitled ‘The end of the unipolar world instead of the end of history’. “There are rumors that the Biden administration is planning to use extremists against China and Russia, thus releasing the hands of the Taliban (considered a banned terrorist organization in Russia),” Dugin wrote in his article. said. Do you think this is possible? Although we have some disagreements in history, Russia and Turkey are basically two close friends. Recently, these friendly relations have become even stronger. Finally, the selfless efforts of the Russian pilots in the great forest fires in August were gratefully received by the Turkish nation. The current tension between Turkey and Russia focuses on Syria. How can Turkey and Russia, the two important actors of the multipolar world, overcome the crisis in Syria?

Leonid Savin: Turkey has already declared itself as a regional leader and decision-maker. However, there are still some tensions with Arab countries and some forces’ negative reactions to the Turkish presence in Syria and Iraq. The United States understands Turkey’s vulnerabilities, such as the Kurdish issue, and will likely manipulate this factor for its own interests in the region. Iran is also a rising power with a specific agenda and Ankara (especially because of Azerbaijan) will need to coordinate its own activities with Tehran. From our point of view, Turkey can be one of the centers of the new polycentric world order and a supporter of traditional values. It is very good that Turkey has stopped some of the pro-Western deals that are ticking time bombs for Turkish society.

But Russia, China, etc. in Eurasia. They should have good pragmatic relations with other power centers such as The thing is, Russia was invited to Syria by the legal government. And after ten years of conflict, the Syrian government is still in power. The Russian presence there was also fixed by treaties. From a rational point of view, Turkey’s continued support for militant groups will have the opposite effect. Now tensions are around Syria’s Idlib province. There are also Kurds. The situation is complex. But Turkey started the normalization process with Arab countries and we are seeing the fruits of this. For example, the opposition activity of the Egyptian media is now prohibited in Turkey. The same process is required for Syria. And Russia will always welcome such steps.

Ali Göçmen: At the beginning of September, Russian philosopher Aleksandr Dugin wrote an article entitled ‘The end of the unipolar world instead of the end of history’. “There are rumors that the Biden administration is planning to use extremists against China and Russia, thus releasing the hands of the Taliban (considered a banned terrorist organization in Russia),” Dugin wrote in his article. said. Do you think this is possible? Although we have some disagreements in history, Russia and Turkey are basically two close friends. Recently, these friendly relations have become even stronger. Finally, the selfless efforts of the Russian pilots in the great forest fires in August were gratefully received by the Turkish nation. The current tension between Turkey and Russia focuses on Syria. How can Turkey and Russia, the two important actors of the multipolar world, overcome the crisis in Syria? Now I want to talk about Eurasian politics. The ideal of Eurasianism is not just a matter of international relations, it has a strong philosophy. We know this. One of these is the preservation of the family and traditional values ​​for the rehabilitation of social institutions corrupted by liberal hegemony. What can be done in the process of reviving the tradition in a multipolar world? For example, what do you think about gay marriage, radical feminism, the fight against euthanasia?

Leonid Savin: You see that most of the problems with the erosion of our traditional societies come from the West. Deviations exist in every society. The question is how to deal with it. In the Native American tribes of the Americas, homosexuality was defined as the fault of the coordination between soul and body. If the body is wrong, perverted behavior begins in the soul (with the opposite sex). So it’s about spirituality. You can find answers to such questions in religions because it is about God, eternity, our destiny as well as spiritual enemies like demons. There are no answers to such questions in material Western culture, only psychoanalysis in itself is destructive. This is why such activities are politically exalted in the West. The spiritual foundation is destroyed, the problems grow. That’s why we’re into multiculturalism, transhumanism, LGBT, etc. They decided to convert.

VIRUS LEAKING TO THE LEFT

Ali Göçmen: I would like to share an anecdote that has remained in my memory: The bell tower of a village church was in the background in the election posters of Mitterrand, the former President of France…

This means: I am a Frenchman, not an American. This is France, not Disneyland! I’m in the classic stonemasonry era, not steel towers.

Mitterrand was a socialist. But today, left, socialist parties put LGBT banners behind them. Do you think a national and traditional left orientation is possible in a multipolar world?

Leonid Savin: The strongest idea within left organizations and parties was justice. But justice is not the monopoly of the left. It is the core of the two main religions in the world, Christianity and Islam. It is interesting that some socialist parties use Christianity for political purposes (as in Venezuela under Hugo Chávez or in Latin America in general, where the Catholic doctrine of liberation theology was born). But the application of same-sex and other kinds of perversions to left politics seems devastating to them as well. In addition, the Frankfurt neo-Marxist school, developed with the support of the CIA, has a strong influence as an ideological attack against the Soviet Union. The old poison is still effective even after the target was eliminated several decades ago.

Meanwhile, Karl Marx used Adam Smith’s ideas in his “Capital,” so leftist ideas have their roots there.

Of course, we need to adapt our approach to economic vision and reorganize our theories. The economy cannot be an end in itself, it is a kind of environment, a home-building process in our cultures. In fact, I drew attention to this issue in my book “Ordo Pluriversalis: Revival of the Multipolar world order”, which discusses the connection between different religions and economic models.

I hope your book will be translated into Turkish and meet Turkish readers soon. Thank you for your time, Mr. Savin.